Once again Nick and I have decided to discuss a topic of the moment, this is a topic that has been knocking around for some time and the question is

Should the Scouts and Guides combine?

I am in the NO Camp and Nick is in the YES Camp (pun intended?), I am going to be kind and let Nick put the Yes argument to you first.

NICK SAYS YES, NICK SAY YES

Girl Guides and Scouting share the same common themes and indeed the same founder, Robert Baden-Powell.

In fact, had it not been for the Victorian / Edwardian social conventions there would not have been two separate organisations.

When BP published Scouting for Boys in 1907, many boys wanted to become Scouts. And so did girls. By the time of the 1909 rally at Crystal Palace, many girls had formed their own patrols and were active Girl Scouts following BP’s ideas.

See http://youtu.be/-jaO_cnari4 (can’t for the life of me remember where I found this video).

However, when he saw the girl’s patrol at Crystal Palace, he decided “something had to be done”. Social convention at the time dictated the boys and girls could not do activities together and that girls were too “delicate”!

So in 1910, with his sister he set up, the  Girl Guides. And that’s the way things have stayed to the present day – two separate organisations but with the similar values, aims and founder.

However, in 1976 the Scout Association decided to allow girls to join the Ventures section (15½ – 21 year) and then in 1991 girls could join all sections. By 2007 it was mandatory (except in some VERY special circumstances) that girls could join all sections (it had been optional until then). And since then girls in Scouting has become very successful.

There still remains a strange anomaly for the 21st Century that two organisations exist doing (virtually) the same things. Each organisation has around half a million members (although PERSONALLY I still can’t believe there are that many Guides – maybe it’s just in my area) and has two separate administrative organisations.

I believe that to join the two organisations now would make the single, unified, organisation a much stronger one and would help to make the activities we do for young people (that’s what we’re all here to do folks) more widely available.

This would cut down on operating costs, meaning more money and resources would go to the groups and directly to the young people that both Movements were created for. A merger would also help to alleviate the volunteer shortage, although probably not remove it entirely.

It would also bring together the two organisation’s strengths. The Scouts, for example, are very good at getting publicity (Bear Grylls is the Chief Scout for example) and the Guides are very good at directing campaigns focused on young people (the “no to airbrushing” in magazines campaign).

The joining of the Scouts and Guides into a single organisation is not uncommon, indeed the Swedish Guides and Scouts merged in 1960 to form the Swedish Guide and Scout Association, although all members are called just ‘Scouts’.

Girl Guiding started as a response to the social conventions from the Victorian / Edwardian periods over 100 years ago, which hold no place in the 21st Century.

A single organisation would prove to be such a good influence for today’s young people.

KIFF SAYS NO, KIFF SAYS NO

There are some obvious points that I am going to cover in a bulleted list cause they are not that important

• Name – what would we be called – the guides are the larger movement so would we be Guides & Scouts of UK or maybe as the bigger movement would just scrap the Scouts and all become Guides?
• Uniform – I agree pale blue is a nice colour but would it look good on a XXXL Leader? (Ok I hear you, it works on a guide leader my argument is invalid)
• What would we do with all those old back room boys who still think scouts only for boys? – actually the combining would probably kill them all off with heart attacks so it another invalid point

On to the core of my argument and it can be made in 3 key point.

Point 1 – Bow before me little scout

It is always Scouts who talk about combining with the Guides, because we feel that we could encompass the guides into us and just become Scouts. At this point I would like to point out that we are the smaller organisation, both in youth and adult numbers. Guides should therefore be considered as the dominate organisation and hence would become the lead organisation and Scouting would be encompassed within it. People never think about that, they always assume that if we joined we would become Scouts.

Yes Scouts is the older organisation and everything, but if we were to combine we would need to bow down to the larger organisation, I don’t know about you but I am not ready to give up 105 years of history for a girl.

If you are thinking that can’t be right based on the 2011 youth numbers there were 600,000 Guides and there were 413,214 Scouts. Also remember that 16% of the Scouts are girls that would mean that if we combines 65% of the organisation would be girls. These numbers say to me the girls are dominant.

Point 2 – PC madness

As we progress further and further along the PC path that we in western society insist we must take, boys are more and more losing out on places where they can just be boys, without having to compete or be compared to girls. Girls play football, rugby, they are even becoming good at the geeky boy past times like computer games. I sometimes feel it would be nice for boys to be able to be boys. Scouting was a place this could happen, however with the introduction of girl this loosened boys grip on this domain.

We already positively discriminate in scouting towards girls (see post) – I sit in meeting following the annual census and ask the question “so by what percentage did the number of boys increase in scouting?” and get blank stares, followed with why would be want that information. As mentioned in the above point combining would make the organisation have 65% girls we would be a completely over run with girls.

While I am sure that some lads would say that was great. It would mean that for some they would forever be compared to girls and not be allowed to stand on their own feet.

Point 3 – Badges, Awards and activities

With both organisations having their own programme, awards and activities whose do we use? Do we keep both sets? What requirements do we follow? There will be some cases like the Chocolate eating badge in Guides (Chocolate Go For It) where I am sure there would be a consensus, but in other areas like the Glamorama Go For I am not so sure, although I have met a couple of scouts who would love it.

Other examples, take for example the First Aid badge within Guides the badge is valid for two years then the test must be re-sat for the person to keep the badge, where as in scouts once you have it, it is yours for life.

Activities – according to POR there are 3 activities which are “banned” – Paintball games, Bungee Jumping and Towing of Inflatable behind Powered Watercraft. However if we review the Guiding activities they are allowed to be towed on inflatables behind powered watercraft but are not allowed to hang-glide or do laser tag. Why is one organisation allowed to do it and one not? If we combine which rule governs? There must be a reason behind both rules but is it possible to find common ground? Maybe if you are a girl you will be able to go on the banana boat at camp but if you’re a boy then you won’t.

Lastly for this section – The top award, the Queens Scout/Guide both have a long history and both organisations would be reluctant to give up what they see as the pinnacle of their progressive development programme. If we chose one award and for argument’s sake we move forward with the Queens Guide, what about all those people who hold the Queen or Kings Scout they suddenly hold a redundant badge. I am very proud of my Queen Scout Award and I would not be happy to think it just became redundant as it has taken me the best part of 5 years to get over the fact that I can’t have a brown badge any more.

A Closing Statement from Nick and Kiff

Whatever position you may personally hold, it is worth pointing out that there are around 1 million (roughly 8% of the, 13 million under 18s in the UK) the young people in the UK involved in either Scouting or Guiding on a regular basis and this can only be a good thing. Both organisations are helping to provide young people activities and ways of keeping them ‘off the streets’ and away from ‘trouble’.

BP certainly had a very good idea all those years ago!

This Nick and Kiff discuss feature, is intended to be a bit of fun. The views expressed within the discussion may not reflect the actual views of the writers.
We both felt it was easy to sit here and type out our own views but could you effectively argue for something that you don’t believe in, it makes for some interesting and thought provoking points.
Both Nick and Kiff are Adult leaders in the Scouts, Nick writes his own blog called Nicks Ramblings

 

©ChrisMeadows2012